MIL is an 89 year old woman, my wife's mother.
1. My wife, daughter and I are at our wits end and appear to be paralyzed as to how to proceed. All of us have gone the extra 100 miles to improve M's life. We moved M from the midwest to Nevada to be able to help her out. Pages and pages could be written. All our efforts have been resisted. We are sad, feeling helpless and paralyzed.
2. These major efforts have been rejected: a. better, more rent stable apartment and b. apartment cleaning and general life assistance.
3. M is often mean, makes nasty statements and irrational accusations to initiate fights with my wife. M excessively complains and whines about issues in her life to my wife and daughter.
4. M was not a nurturing or very loving mother which makes giving support to an often mean person very very difficult.
4. M is irrationally obsessive about saving/spending money. She saves over $1000 each month and has 30k in cash in the bank. She's saving for a "rainy day". Meanwhile, it is pouring out! She rejected a service we found that cost $500 / month for professional cleaning and general life support. It was "too expensive".
5. M is wasting away in her apartment. Her apartment is NOT hygienic. Her apartment smells like urine. She is unable to cut her toenails. She will NOT make any decision or take any positive action and rejects our advice because she does not trust us. She even claims that we are stealing her money. Yes, we do realize there is some dementia going on, but she has historically not been very rational in her decision making to start with.
6. M expects help and complains about not getting help but a solution is difficult because the solution is either too expensive or M is too picky about the individual we find to help clean her apartment.
7. We are NOT going to start providing nursing services for her. We have provided some general cleanup support, but in the context of the "Big Picture here", it is becoming too much.
My wife is a very kind person. She seems paralyzed and unable to enforce "tough love" measures. I hate having to see my wife getting abused and intentionally made to feel guilty by not being able to solve M's issues. Personally, I am inclined to make M take the $500 per month cleaning and general assistance service. Otherwise, I would report her to County Adult services. BUT it isn't my mother and this isn't my decision...
SO,
Do we let M have her way and watch her waste away? Eventually she will fall down in her apartment and end up hospitalized and be forced into a "worst case" nursing home ?
OR,
do we SOMEHOW force M into a somewhat better living situation with outside professional assistance ? (NOT considering formal Assisted Living)
Either choice SUCKS and in either choice, M will end up hating my wife. My wife is in a "no win" situation.
We have reached a point where M is increasingly impacting our lives. We feel we've done what we can and left with no options we now need to make an effort to minimize M's negative impacts.
It is clear- we are going to have a big mess to resolve at M's end of life. Her estate will be a mess to to deal with. As far as we're concerned, the government can have all her assets. We don't want to deal with the bureaucratic mess she will be leaving.
Any advice for us on how we can minimize our legal / healthcare hassles is greatly appreciated !
Thank you,
Look up Fear, Obligation and Guilt (aka F.O.G.), which is what MIL is using to control your wife).
Your wife made vows to you, not her mom. You may need to force this issue with her and get her to a therapist so that she can overcome her "grooming".
Unless MiL is declared incompetent, there is nothing you can do to force care. Yes, you SHOULD report her to APS as a vulnerable adult. Let the state take guardianship if she is declared incompetent.
As you cannprobably tell, I have little patience for stubborn elders who want to be propped up in their fantasy of "independence". I've seen both scenarios play out in my family and have seen a life destroyed by parents who are like this. Don't go down that path.
I feel bad that your family is having to go through this with your mother-in-law. The first thing you need to get your mind around is your MIL will never, ever change. You all are beating your heads against the wall hoping, thinking and expecting things to suddenly become different - they won't. She will never be agreeable, considerate or cooperative. This is who she is and has been. You're right, your wife as well as you and your daughter are in a "no win" situation. Your MIL has been manipulating your wife I suspect all her life and she is taking advantage of your wife's kindness - intentionally. She knows this will paralyze not only your wife but, the rest of you. She knows that it is impacting all of you but, does not care! Even if she has some dementia, this is the foundation of your MIL's personality. I wonder if she has NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) or some other type of personality disorder.
Unfortunately, there are times when all of the choices "SUCK" as you put it. Somehow, someway your wife with your help needs to "take the bull by the horns." My mom who is 95 with Alzheimer's is a first born of 8 siblings and extremely independent. I used to "ask" what she wants to do. I no longer "ask." I make a decision and then "tell" her what will be taking place in still a kind but, firm way. Your wife is stuck in the "child" mode instead of the grown woman she really is based on how she grew up.
I think this is way above what you are able to figure out on your own and you will need to get advice/guidance. Your MIL will always have an excuse for why something can or can't be done. Maybe you can talk to a social worker with your local "Area of Aging Agency" who is not "in" the situation, can be objective and give you concrete options or more resources. That was how I started when it came to my mom as I had no idea what to do or where to turn.
As for her estate, I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with the "mess" it will be when that time comes. I know sometimes a local Senior Center in someone's city may have some initial free legal counsel from a lawyer on staff.
I know I don't have concrete steps for you to take but, sometimes just getting a start is enough to get off the ground and more and more resources/options become available.
I sure wish you and your family some peace as you try to deal and cope with what sounds like running into obstacle after obstacle.
By the way, if any of you like to read, I would suggest "Boundaries" by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend. It was the most helpful book I've ever read and boundaries are a necessity in all aspects of our lives!
i am in the exact same boat except my mother has no estate and not even $1.
I will order “Boundaries” which I have been trying very very hard to set. Only daughter and family member to take care of these needs.
my mother is young, only 77 but physically and mentally abused 4 children her entire life. I do have fear, feel obligated since she has absolutely no one else and guilt simply because she is my mother.
thanks for sharing valuable resources. Good luck to all in this terrible situation.
You are at the place I have come to call The Crisis of Realization. Many before you have smashed headlong into this wall and now you are all dazed, uncertain what to do because your rational mind KNOWS that continuing to do the same strategies will NOT improve the situation. But this is not a no-win situation because you and your wife need to stop looking at it as such. You have my sympathies, as I was also a "crash" victim. Here is what I've learned and I hope it helps you and your wife.
1) does your wife (or anyone) have durable PoA for MIL? (If no, then skip to paragraph about family guardianship vs. county guardianship.)
2) If your wife (or whomever) does have PoA, then she must now dust off that document and start making decisions *in her mother's best interests*. This does NOT mean decisions/actions that make her mom happy. There is no such thing anymore. By your own description your MIL is 1) incontinent 2) unable to carry out her ADLs (Activities of Daily Living) which she needs to remain "independent". If you and your wife begin doing things for her you will only prolong and prop up the illusion of independence. By your own description she sounds like she has cognitive decline, which is characterized by negative personality changes and short-term memory problems. It will be a total waste of time and energy to try to "make her happy". The caregiving arrangement must work for both parties. Right now it is not working for your wife/you.
1) start providing in-home services for MIL to remain in her apartment (but you will be battling her on every front since she must pay for it and she will be firing people you send over or physically resisting them).
-- or --
2) she is moved into a good, reputable, local facility where she will get any and all medical attention she needs, plus the benefit of socialization AND your wife/you will have peace of mind and can visit her as often as you wish. The medical staff can try meds for her mood/agitation if they think it necessary and she may be more like her prior self. No guarantees. When she runs out of funds have your wife apply for Medicaid for her and the only difference will be she will have to then share a room.
Please have your wife take her in to the doctor for a cognitive exam and test for UTI (which is very common in the elderly and often have no other symptoms than personality/behavior changes like confusion/agitation). Your wife can tell her a "therpeutic fib" to get her to the doc ("Medicare now requires an annual physical").
If no one has PoA for her and she won't assign one: then if your wife/you wish to continue making decisions on her behalf and managing her care legally, she will need to pursue guardianship through the courts. This can cost thousands (that should come out of your MIL's estate) and time and energy. If your wife doesn't go this route, then she WILL have to stand on the sidelines and watch the slo-mo train wreck, calling APS and having the county take guardianship. In this case your wife will have no say at all in where her mom resides, what her medical/dental care is and will lose control of her assets and be locked out of her accounts. She will be able to visit her mom and carry on her relationship, she just will have no say in anything until she passes.
This is a lot to process but you must stop believing that you are paralyzed. Your wife needs to make a decision. Deciding not to decide is a decision -- and then the county comes in and will make all of them for MIL. It would help you two to educate yourselves on decline and dementia. There are useful Teepa Snow videos on YouTube and many books. This will help your wife to better interact with her mother. She is no longer the Original Mother (she's in there somewhere but is unable to come to the surface). Your wife is now dealing with Declining Mom and must stop attributing every negative action to her "personality" or choice. Those days are mostly gone. Good luck!
I started this battle a few years ago ith my mom, before anything serious happened, but the red flag popped up when two incidents occured in the same year. First one, she side swipes a parked firetruck (but it was the firetruck's fault!), Second, she allowed a broken pipe downstairs to run and flood for 3 hours, during that three hours the neighbor banged on the door trying to wake her up. My mom's hearing was shot. She refused to get hearing aids.
I live 300 miles away.
There was no convincing her that it was best to downsize and move back to California in a IL or AL close to me. And we have some nice ones near us.
She too, extremely miserly, stubborn and just not willing to give a millimeter of independence up. I didn't visit much at this point because of my husbands' situation and I needed to make sure I was there for him. Everytime I brought up the 'downsizing' subject on the phone . .she would shut it down before I had a chance to even lay out the choices and possibilities. So after a time a I gave up bringing it up. AT this point, I knew the time was coming soon for that 'phone call'.
And one morning, at 9am, that phone call rang. It was the beginning of the end and I knew it. But there was still no convincing, nothing I could do to change her situation. Why? She refused to give up her independence. She refused to face the fact that she was nearing her end . .even if were 5 or so years away - she was in the last chapter of her life. She refused to assign me POA. She refused to handle anything in her estate, most likely because that would mean, to her, the end would come sooner rather than later. I tried for Guardianship, but no doctor would claim she was in cognitive decline (which she was, and I have much evidence to prove it, but she put on 'the show' for doctors everytime) . I was stuck legally.
Her end came sooner regardless. I had no power to change her direction or lengthen her life. She passed two months ago at 89, of CHF, and other heart complications.
And now, I am dealing with the estate. Probate was filed last week. The house (3300sq ft, 2 stories) has a RM on it and full of 'stuff'. I have to go through all that stuff. Stuff that I remember in my childhood home. Useless stuff too. I have to be the one to throw it all out or give it away or sell.
All you can do is sit back and watch. And Stress. And cry (your wife will do that part I'm sure). These 'mom's who have no regard for their children or family are heartless, selfish and stubborn and unfortunately, it's us children of these types of mom's have to inherit this sort of BS. It sucks.
I'm sorry for what you are going through. But keep coming to this forum, because you'll find that you are not alone. And maybe you'll get some ideas to try and change the course of you mom's fate. Either that . . or you just walk away and keep her caustic attitude and 'mess' clear of your lives.
You will, of course, come to the point that M. HAS TO be placed. Right now, even in her early (undiagnosed?) dementia, she can fend for herself I am assuming, can order in her own food? You have given us so much information here, but I guess it is never enough. But as to placement, M. will soon be more a danger to herself living alone than she is now.
And I just came back to edit. I read some responses. I hope that your wife will look at these. There is such good advice and personal experience. Know you are not alone. Take care of yourselves.
To be frank, and given the history, I would ask the State to assume guardianship and diagnosis of M., who is appoaching need for placement for her own safety and who clearly won't accept that from you.
Your wife was apparently raised by this woman, who had issues of meanness early on, and likely she was trained in the behavior she still does, which is to serve with not even a thank you on the horizon.
I believe that family counseling for you, your wife, and you child is the only answer. Your wife needs boundaries she can live within for her own protection. They cannot be dictated by you, because your wife is being then dictated to by both YOU and by her own Mother. This leaves her further torn, confused and ridden with that good old word we see on this forum every single day ...."guilt".
I think mistakes have been made, and number one was to have Mom moved to you where you are daily faced with the mess she has made of her life. Let the state be her guardian, which it would be had she never given birth to your dear wife.
You are kind, caring and good at explaining what seems an impossible situation. Let your wife know that you will get thru this somehow together, and that you care for and treasure her; she has had likely little enough of that. Tell her that she cannot "fix" what her Mom has done with her own life and relationships. Suggest you see a licensed Social Worker who works with life change issues, to make your way through the best you can.
This must be heartbreaking for you to see for your wife, as it is heartbreaking for her to see for her Mom. It will be a learning experience for your daughter on life consequences, and what to do when there is quite honestly nothing to be done.
She is slowly, but steadily declining. Since she has NEVER been what one could refer to as 'nice' it's hard to determine how much of her 'meanness' is just her, or how much may be dementia.
She lives alone, but shouldn't. However, she will not let anyone in, except her DD and occasionally my DH. She wants DD to do everything for her, and she's exhausted. As a DIL, I have been yesterday's news for 44 years and she actually screamed at me so long and hard the last time I saw her, I snapped and walked out and told her I was giving her a great gift: she'd never have to see me again. And I am holding fast to that.
DH just lets his sister handle everything, which is patently WRONG and unfair to sister--but he spends an hour with his mother and comes home and goes to bed. (She abused him severely as a child and he never came to terms with it--a lot of people have that negative background. No love whatsoever for this woman)
They make NO decisions. I get the word 'paralyzed'--neither of them will make the move to get her help or even try to get her to accept that she is literally in danger living alone.
They're just sitting there, waiting for the 'big fall". And it will happen.
Her overall health is pretty good. So she could very likely outlive both DH and his older brother. She's only 17 years older than OB, and he is in poor health.
As an inlaw who has now been 'divorced' from her---my words and ideas have zero impact. I just sit and sadly watch this drama unfold.
My Mom, would carry her food from the kitchen to the far side of the front room. She spilled food of course. One day I noticed white spots in the carpet. She told me, very proudly, that she found a way to get the spots out. She used full strength Purex (sigh).
She continued to drive and had several fender benders, the last one was her running her car into the rentals garage door and fence. She refused to formulate a plan with my husband and I regarding her future care. She had several falls and went into diabetic ketoacidosis 2 times in the past 7 months. I reported her to the DMV and now she is blaming me for loosing her license, instead of taking responsibility to not kill someone on the road. I have been NC for 5 months and will remain so. She is a raging covert narcissist. I refuse to participate anymore.
She finally was moved to a family friends home because it was no longer was safe for her at the rental. The move took months partially because of Covid and her inability to purge her hoard. She is renting a massive storage unit for her hoard now. She guilted this friend years ago by making the friend promise she would never allow MIL to go into a home. Her enabling roommate, related the the family friend also moved with MIL. The guilt is THICK with my husband but he is getting better with setting boundaries.
Now uncle is left in the rental. We have been losing $200 per month after expenses on the rental...not to mention the thousands of dollars in rental income for the last 10 years. He is 80 years old and has refused to formulate a plan. He has cancelled on me 3 times for VA assisted living tours. He lost his license but continues to drive. I suspect he has the early stage of dementia. He accuses everyone of stealing his stuff. We changed all the locks on the property to appease him. We refuse to enable him anymore. I no longer bring him meals. We refuse to help him set up his iPhone he has 3 phones now with different numbers. He receives incoming calls and can dial out. He is estranged from his daughters for the last 35 years (he is a narcissist like his sister)
We are taking the tough love approach now. I am LC with him but was NC for 3 months due to him having an outburst with me. He has since apologized. Husband and I are still LC. The guilt is thick about how we abandoned this "poor elderly man". The upside is that there is only my Husband, MIL and Uncle in the immediate family. They can complain to whomever they wish because bottom line is that those flying monkeys have no impact in/on our lives.
I call these two my husbands elderly children. They are both VERY difficult individuals who take no accountability for their actions. The kicker is that they both get very nice retirement, social security benefits to where they could afford a place of their own. Instead they have been mooching off us for years. I could go on and on in regards to all their narcissist shenanigans over the years. Husband and I are on the same page now. This forum has helped us tremendously. You are not alone. We wait for the inevitable crisis now.
You then make sensible decisions, with the courage to carry the can about them. Your daughter may well be on your side, and be a good sounding post about what is the best decision. In particular you stop the family, including your wife, continue with the propping up that enables your MIL to believe wrongly that she is independent. If MIL abuses your wife about it, her answer is that you insist, and she is not willing to jeopardise her marriage. She can quote scripture about ‘forsaking all others’, if that matters in your family dynamics.
Something has to change, and this could be a way to make it happen. Yes, sometimes I am very happy for my DH to make the decisions that are just too hard for me, notwithstanding all my feminist principles. (And sometimes it goes the other way too, me for him. We both understand when too many things get in the way of good decisions)
Lots of love to you and your family, Margaret.
Enter dementia. In her mind, she was fine, she was independent, she could cook. In reality, nope. She lived alone and I didn't interfere or go there much (was still working full time.) When we had to take the car away, I had to start taking her shopping and/or provide supplies. Gradually it became evident that she was NOT cooking, even though she was buying the meats and veggies to do so. I didn't spend time checking her place, so it wasn't until after she moved that I found out how much cleaning she wasn't doing, accidents she'd had and stuff (usually just trash) stuck in drawers, things put away and forgotten, so she would ask for more... The worst was finding that not only was every closet and drawer stuffed full of clothes, but so was every bag, tote, hope chest and FIVE large porta-closets - all clothes she bought over the years and saved. Some still had tags on it! Shoes and handbags to match everything! Costume jewelry too. Augh!
So, rather than just promise the kids, perhaps you should visit an attorney and have all your documents in place, including your wishes for if/when you become incompetent...
ANYONE can be assigned as POA. Some people assign attorneys, maybe because they have no family or maybe because they don't trust the family. But, rest assured, this attorney is going to manage finances and sign paperwork as POA, but is NOT going to take this person in or be responsible for their care. They will likely just contact APS or the state and have them take over if there is a cognitive issue.
POAs also do NOT allow you to tell a person what they will or won't do, where they will or will not live. That is not the intent or legality behind POAs. Even when dementia is in play, POAs do NOT give you that "power." Our mother was adamant (after dementia kicked in) about not moving and the EC atty told us we could not force her. He suggested guardianship, but the facility we chose would not take a committal, so we had to resort to some 'sleight of hand' shenanigans to make the move happen (staff said just get her there, they would do the rest!)
Many people do misunderstand what POA does and does not allow.
Other than those options, you may need to allow MIL to live her life with all of you a little less in it. You, your wife and daughter need to talk without MIL and decide the types of care you are willing to provide and options for care you will not provide. After you have decided on the boundaries of care, decide what you will do when MIL acts out: leave, redirect the conversation, give her acceptable options when she complains... Whatever you decide, all of you will need to stick to your plan and your boundaries.
Sometimes, it will take a change in MIL's health to force the issue of increased paid care. You may wish to lean into that a little and research help for MIL since she is headed that direction: home health care aides, assisted living apartment, or full care nursing home. This way you have already done the homework before she needs the care.
I had to result to adult protective services to get the car keys from the husband who kept driving after his license was revoked, since he forgot about that. That was the most significant "outside" help I resorted to.