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If anyone read the debacle my mom created for my Thanksgiving yesterday you know how angry and resentful I was.


I was able to get my kids to watch mom for about an hour and went to my SILs. When asked how things were going I immediately started venting and pretty much called her the b word.


I was feeling awful about it, because despite everything, my mother values her dignity and does not deserve to be bad mouthed to others (even though that wasn’t my intention).


Then I spent the 2nd night at her house and she immediately started complaining about everything again! All I could think of was the post in the “is it wrong to wish someone would die?” discussion where someone shared that the vet said to put the dog down before you come to hate him.


Despite being a dysfunctional family I always loved my mother, she did the best she could with us kids, and was good to her grandchildren. Yes, she was needy and had unrealistic expectations, but I believe she had a good heart. I feel like this whole aging care thing is going to end with me growing to hate her.


Many have said here that our guilt is really grief in disguise, because we feel helpless that we can’t stop out LO’s illness, sadness & ultimate death. But I think I’m feeling actual guilt because I literally can’t stand to be around her at this point.

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No. You don’t hate her. You hate the situation.

A visual that I like is that of a dry sponge that gets loaded down and needs to be wrung out. Think of yourself that way. You are the sponge and every once in awhile probably several times a day, step away and wring the sponge dry. Do that with your favorite stress relieving activity like taking a brisk walk, or deep breathing exercises or meditation. Do whichever you choose until you are calm. I do it until my shoulders have come down from under my ears and feel comfortable there.
Here is a great short video by Dr. Huberman, a Stanford doctor, telling about how you can slow your heart by using a breathing technique that you can use in real time. This done by releasing the carbon dioxide that is built up due to stress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSZKIupBUuc
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Lily, my mother pumped me full of the "you should be ashamed of yourself" bs my whole life too. I was too fat, too busty, too this, too that, not enough of this, not enough of that.....she had me in Weight Watchers at 9 years old, for crying out loud, as the only child in a room full of women, after force feeding me for 9 years! Had me fitted for "minimizer bras" to hide my bust behind. One day, I woke up from the indoctrination she was attempting on me when I was about 11. I separated myself from HER mental illness and realized I was a child of God, perfect as I WAS. From then on, I was okay.

My mother lived to 95. Separately from me, and I did no hands on care for her at all, but managed her life (and dads) as their only child and POA. I've been able to love myself in spite of the messages of I've been swamped with for life.

Don't buy into the bs being FORCED on you. Disassociate from the insanity.
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2023
Lea,

I am so glad that you intuitively knew your self worth. You should not have been subjected to such misery.
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@wiki100, You hit the nail on the head. It’s all about shame. Throughout this journey, and being on this forum I keep asking my self why I and others constantly capitulate to our elders’ demands, unreasonable expectations and even abuse, while while feeling that we owe it to them to keep them safe, comfortable, and even “happy”.

”You should be ashamed of yourself” was said often when I was a child. I think my whole life was shaped by this statement. I should be ashamed that I have paid caregivers taking care of mom (because she is my mother!). I should be ashamed that mom was sad or lonely because I wasn’t there every minute, and I should be ashamed that I didn’t want to spend 48 hours of Thanksgiving not only caring for her, but preparing the house and food so others should feel obligated come and be with her.

Shame, shame, shame!

I’ve been through so much therapy over the years, and learned so many valuable tools. But the shame is like a permanent scar that never goes away.
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wicki100 Nov 2023
Lily, I always identify with your posts. I am my own worst enemy with my expectations and perfectionism. I've also had a lot of therapy, Alanon... But now I'm encountering the real life day-to-day practice of putting boundaries and detachment into practice, and I feel like in the past 13 months of hospice, I have actually been going through my life from age 3 up to 13 up to 23...to now, and redoing and re-experiencing all the emotions of abandonment and anger and grief I went through trying to make my mother happy my entire childhood when it was clear she was very very unhappy. Much of our relationship, especially from the preteen / teenage years, is playing out-- and without realizing it at first, I've been given this chance to approach this the way I wish I could have done back then, with this knowledge I have as an adult.
This means, for example, I have a hard and firm discussion with her about complaining, and how it hurts me when she complains about her beautiful facility, because of all the money I'm putting into her care.
At the same time I told her I admired her courage going through all the medical stuff she's going through and not having any control and power... and I respected her for everything she did for us as children keeping our family together with a very absent and abusive husband.
I Let her know that I respected her well at the same time I was overwhelmed with her care and I needed to take a step back and to please not take it personally.
Of course she would go back to complaining lol ....but she did get a bit better and the point was this was for me and not for her. This was what I wish I could have said to her when I was 13.
I felt free after that ... And she actually responded relatively well, and we had a mature discussion between 2 adults...and immediately a few hours later I felt shame for "hurting her feelings". When in fact I was pretty much trying to save my life and hers because I was close to walking out forever.
The growth though, was that I felt the uncomfortable feelings; talked about them with a trusted friend who'd been cheering me on; and didn't try to retract it and beg her forgiveness.
As time has gone on, detaching with love... Hearing her complain but not feeling like I immediately need to fix it... Has become a bit more comfortable. It also means I approach things with less resentment. Sometimes, lol!
I have to sit through the shame moments of being human and not try to fix them, engage in self talk to calm the amygdala fear response, and move on. If I try to quick -fix the shame of being human by apologizing for a very human response, I'll go right back up repeating the behavior.
You've nothing to apologize for. You're doing great
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We are human and allowed expressions of anger....please stop feeling guilty for being human. If we weren't allowing ourselves to express anger in healthy ways-- in your case, away from your mom, so she couldn't hear it--we'd bottle it up and take it out on someone else, usually ourselves. Frankly, we all certainly talk badly about and are talked badly about at times in our families. I bet your mom says and said mean things about you, too. My mom does about me. It's venting and comes under the category of "what I don't know won't hurt me." Frankly, when I talk s*** about my mom (which I do a lot!), it's around people who think it's hilarious. I only feel guilty if the responses are less than actively approving. This kind of guilt comes from my childhood, where I wasn't learned how to express myself appropriately and express my needs appropriately... and that dysfunction was instilled by my parents. I learned to feel shame for very human feelings. As a mature adult working on herself constantly, I can give myself grace for being human and having a sense of humor is what gets me through. And sometimes in a less than approving situation the old guilt comes back.
You don't owe anyone an apology, other than yourself for giving yourself a hard time for being human and having a sense of humor about something... being the caregiver of an elderly person... which most people cannot and will not do.
I do believe what we often call guilt is actually shame from our childhood that was instilled by the very people that we are feeling shame about feeling that way towards. I'm absolutely certain that they didn't think twice about what you said, and as you said since they were caregivers of before they know exactly what you're going through. We carry shame responses for my childhood for having very human feelings. It's unproductive, It's from your past, you are human, please let it go, and continue to find safe places to vent. Maybe it wasn't the safest audience In your mind ... And that is where the guilt comes from...but I bet you have friends who would find it hilarious. And honestly even my mom and my her better years would find my b*tching about her hilarious.
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Oh my..Tough when our anger gets the best of us. Forgive yourself. I am tired of this caregiving also. 5th year of being my moms everything. The pretense of how wonderful it is to spend time listening to complaining, searching for the hidden items she thinks someone stole and family members not being engaged is exhausting! My sibling relationship has been destroyed by this. Moms 90 …I am 73. She is healthy …physically…poor dear has outlived her brain. Sad. And many more years may follow….I try to remember this lady is my moms body but not my mother. Good Luck..ps: I am in monthly counseling so I have a person where I can complain about mom and there is no judgement….
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I think that the only person that NEVER called their mother a b**ch was nailed to a cross....
Years ago the facilitator at the support group that I no co-chair gave us all an article. (I am going to get the numbers wrong but the gist is still true)
This paper said that 70% of caregivers admit getting angry at the person they are caring for. I said "well ya know what that means...30% of the caregivers lied."
You can not be a caregiver and never get angry at the person you're caring for.
We are human, we get angry.
What we do with that anger is what makes us human.
You walk away
You vent...and that is what you did, in what you thought was a safe place.

You may be Burnt Out.
You may need a break
You might look into a Respite Stay for mom.
You might look into hiring a caregiver. Think of the caregiver as someone that will help YOU not mom if she is resistant.
If mom is able to attend an Adult Day Program that would give both of you a break form each other.
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I was going to contact the moderators and have them take this thread down because of my poorly worded headline. However, I received so many heartfelt and helpful responses, I wish I were able to respond to each one individually.

Clearly a lot of you either are now, or have in the past, been at that point of constant stress where could lose it at any moment.

While it makes me feel less alone, I’m sorry so many people are going through this. @Kathleen your comment about dealing with the mentally ill is spot on. My mom has never been declared incompetent, and she gives direction to all the paid people who come in (as well as family). But she DOES have dementia.

She doesn’t go to the doctor anymore now that she’s on hospice, so she won’t get a competentcy test that way. And I really don’t want to go to court for guardianship if I don’t have to. (I did it for my grandmother). So it goes on like you describe, spending long, draining hours with the mentally ill.

@Debbiespain, yes, I feel the “racing pulse, and how the energy wells up inside of the stomach, moving up your chest, until it has nowhere else to go but "out".” Your post was very insightful.

Thank you all for your kind support. This forum is a lifesaver.
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Hothouseflower Nov 2023
This forum has been a lifeline for me too. It helps to know I am not alone and there are people going through the same things who are willing to provide advice and support.
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Answers here are all good. It strikes me that none of us have been trained to spend long hours with the mentally ill and those with dementia are just that-mentally ill. And if we were dealing with the mentally ill in a job, we wouldn’t be emotionally involved with them and could go home and get away. So many people here are on their last nerve so every now and then they explode. Support here is the best we can do.
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I always feel guilty when I talk sh!t about my mother to my husband because she would not like that one bit. But humans are social animals, always narrating our experiences to one another (especially over the holidays). The person who never does this creeps out their fellows. 

Also, I'd rather be described as a b**ch than as "cute" (something my cousin often calls my mother--so patronizing). 

Having now read about 30 memoirs by daughters describing their experiences of caring for their mothers, I can assure you that, in comparison, you and I are models of discretion.

And in universe time we'll all be dead soon anyway and none of this will matter. Even those hard-bound memoirs will eventually fade away. 

Deep breath and refocus on the present.
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InlandMeg Nov 2023
That’s so funny I used to work at a company that had an employee (woman) who would use the word “cute” to mean “yeah, nah”. She’d say “oh, you’re so cute!” meaning “nah, I’m gonna disregard everything you just said.”
Til her friend clued me, I was puzzled why she found so many people attractive. Lol!
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Just be glad you didn't call your MIL the B word in front of the in-laws. 😂🤣
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"She said it to her in-laws about her mother, but her mother wasn't there when she said it. So mother had no idea it was even said and never will. Mother is home dying with 24\7 care givers on hospice. Mom was supposed to have weeks left to live but that wss a few months ago."

Yes thank you, that is the exact clarification I needed. After reading the responses and then rereading my original headline I realized it sounded Iike I actually called mom that in front my in laws.

In reality, I was just telling them what had happened re: Thanksgiving and used that word (in a poor attempt to make it funny), for which I felt guilty about. Even though mom really can be a b word sometimes, she doesn't deserve me bad mouthing her behind her back.
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2023
Thanks for the clarification and sorry if some of us read through the posting too quickly and missed certain points.
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My Mom was difficult towards the end . Hateful Looks constantly . I am The Only One taking care of her - Not my sister, Not her best friend or sister . Everyone dropped out . She was unhappy and demanding - the 2 weeks I had her was HELL after rehab and then when the VNA came and I had been In a Hotel for 3 weeks we called 911 . There was a sense Of relief Because I Had been caring for her alone . Once she got to the Hospital and the Head nurse in charge said " she needs 24/ 7 care and to be in a NH - Here is the Number of a Lawyer who can Help you - Now go find a Place for her . I Found her a Good NH and she Had a room Mate and the Woman said " That woman is a real Bi*ch " meaning My Mom . It was true . She was demanding and yelling " Change me " and then she wouldn't eat . I would go to therapy afterwards . I did this for 3 Months and By Thanksgiving I was Burnt out . On Christmas I got the call and she was taken to Boston , Placed on Life support for 2 and a Half weeks and then had a heart attack and was brain dead . I had told them " not to give her anesthesia " and they did any way . It was relief when we decided to turn off the Machines - her sister stayed By her side and slept next to her . I went home Knowing she would Pass soon and she did in the Morning . One thing all her relatives surrounded her In Boston so for that Last 2 and a Half weeks she had Plenty of company .
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I'm feeling the same as you and was so frustrated that I told my mom that she uses me then discards me after. That did go over well and she turned my family and her friends against me. I've cared for her, basically all the relatives for YEARS. I reminded her that I quit college and 2 jobs to help her with my dad so she could retire. I spent probably a year or two with my dad, taking him to university hospitals then he passed. I'm sad that my mom trashed me to all her friends and my family when I've sacrificed most of my life.
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Lily,
You now tell us:
"I wish I could take this post down now because I didn’t actually “call” her that word, and nothing was said at the dinner table. I was telling a story and trying to make it humorous, and accidentally dropped that word in, immediately regretting it. But clearly the slip was a result of the utter frustration I was feeling."

I have asked myself today if I don't need another "month off" from AC, because of my general frustration with our posts, and with to our posts.
You may have decided the issue from me.

Forgive me, Lily. I just don't understand why you, a regular member of our Forum, would write us something that happened on the Holiday that actually DID NOT HAPPEN.
I don't understand. I am glad some seem to, but I just don't. Indicative, I think, of my--yes--needing a vacation from AC. It happens.
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sp196902 Nov 2023
She said it to her in-laws about her mother, but her mother wasn't there when she said it. So mother had no idea it was even said and never will. Mother is home dying with 24\7 care givers on hospice. Mom was supposed to have weeks left to live but that wss a few months ago.
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Don’t beat yourself up over it and stop replaying what happened in your head. It happened. No one thinks bad about you, everyone knows you are dealing with a lot right now. Let it go.

DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO FEEL GUILT. it is unproductive.
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Lily,

I understand that you feel badly about what happened. You recognize the whole picture regarding your family dynamics.

You give your mom credit for what she has done well. Obviously, you care about her. Still, certain situations are stressful and it’s hard for us to endure.

You are a sensible, mature person who is able to understand that there are various aspects of a situation.

If it makes you feel better to tell your mom that you lost your patience or simply that you were on edge, go ahead.

Do you think that she would appreciate this sentiment or is she the type that would rub it in your face? If she will be gracious then it’s something to consider. If not, I would just let it go.

This whole thing may be bothering you more than anyone else.

I am sure that you realize that these things happen in all families! No one has a perfect family.
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I'm relatively new here, but the one thing I keep seeing is how people misdirect their anger. I fell victim of this too in spite of the death doula work I used to do when I came into circumstances in caring for my aging parent.

If you notice your body when the misdirected anger surfaces, you'll notice that it feels very physical in terms of racing pulse, and how the energy wells up inside of the stomach, moving up your chest, until it has nowhere else to go but "out". That's when I continued my therapy from years ago, and I began to understand how "trauma drama" works. My point is, you need to get some support - it's a theme in most of my postings.
And it's true that guilt and grief issue directives to one another, something you must learn to listen for.
If you cannot stand to be around her, you need to find a way to take a breather. This may be a little tedious, but from my own experience, the core of my whole existence right now is based on the "breathers" I take. And I take alot.

When she complains, that's code for "I'm not in control and that's not how I would do it." Offer choices if you have the patience to do so. Choices go a long way at my house which can help keep the anxiety and the guilt down.
The guilt the you're suffering is likely due to the fact that you're operating at the bare emotional minimum.
You definitely need to sideline yourself for a bit if you can.
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2023
You’re smart to take breaks when you need it!
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Feeling trapped and at the end of your rope, then someone might come along and ask “how’s it going?” … it’s not at all unusual to VENT! I think it’s mainly anger because you don’t know when it will end. When my mom was at her worst I told a few friends/family I hated her, wanted her to die. A few eyebrows shot up. I REALLY DID want her to die tho because I wanted to get my own life back. I felt completely trapped. And unconsciously I knew the path she was on, and what I was doing for her, would kill me possibly before her. My anxiety was off the charts.
Then I got that fear and anxiety confirmed on this forum. Yes caregiving can kill YOU before them so find a solution. For me, the solution was to place her in AL and sell her house to pay for it. The process to do all that was stressful because I was already burned out. But when it was all over - and I had given myself a couple weeks of distance from her - I could interact much better with my mom.

I hope you find a solution in your case. I can say it’s the hardest thing to hear when you’re already burned out - that you need to find a solution Yesterday! It feels like you’re drowning in doing and then somebody says “it’s urgent that you do MORE”. I hope you or someone close can find the best solution for your mom. The goal would be to put her in a place where you can once again feel like you’re just her loving daughter. Bringing her flowers, taking her to lunch, etc. (((many hugs)))
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I wish I could take this post down now because I didn’t actually “call” her that word, and nothing was said at the dinner table. I was telling a story and trying to make it humorous, and accidentally dropped that word in, immediately regretting it. But clearly the slip was a result of the utter frustration I was feeling.
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sp196902 Nov 2023
Why regret it? Your mother is a controlling bi*ch. I can bet your mother has never felt bad about any of the crap she has put you through. Case in point your having to babysit her because she gave the care giver the day off today - when she knew you wanted to relax and had plans. If that's not being a selfish bi*ch i dont know what is.

Just because she's dying (or not actually dying since it's been months now) doesn't mean you aren't allowed to call it like it is. Technically we are all dying but some know their expiration date.

Did you tell mom she is not in control of giving care givers the day off and that she is going to respite care for Christmas?
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I’ve never called my mother a “b” in front of my in laws, but I have been very open about all that I’ve been through with her this last year, her problems, her hoarding, troubled behaviors. This spilled over into awkwardness when in-laws/SIL invited us to Thanksgiving, and I did not want them feeling uncomfortable with her there, knowing all that’s happened. Or if she went into telling her delusional stories at the holiday table!

I think you calling her that name was a very human slip up. I would mainly caution against it because it might bring the mood down, etc. I often have to remind myself to be more restrained in these situations.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. We all just get pushed to our wits end.
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I've not happened to drop THAT particular word to describe my MIL in front of family--but I sure could have. Dh refers to her as such. She's HIS mom, not mine, so I guess it's kind of a word I wouldn't use around my family. They'd actually probably laugh or cheer me on for being 'real'.

ALTHOUGH--what I'm THINKING as opposed to what comes out of my mouth--often 2 completely opposite things.

Probably your inlaws simply agreed with you. Don't sweat it.

IDK how my SIL doesn't fall apart and scream every bad word she knows about her mom. Truly---I can keep my distance, and do. SIL is there 2-10 times a week. Always smiling, always sweet. Bending over to make mom happy (and that's patently impossible). We're all in shock at how much abuse she'll take from MIL and keep on smiling. (She's abnormal in that regard---most people would be running for the hills after the year she's had with MIL).

Be nice to yourself and forgive yourself. It probably felt good to say what you felt.

A short and sweet note to the hosts and the promise to help with dishes next year strikes the right tone.

Your inlaws are probably just so GLAD they don't have your life and ensuing drama.

It's OK.
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LilyLavalle Nov 2023
“They'd actually probably laugh or cheer me on for being 'real'.” That was basically the reaction I got. I listeners weren’t offended. It was me who felt bad afterwards. Thanks for your support.
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No, guilt is NOT grief. Guilt is a word we often misuse when we MEAN grief. Guilt infers responsibility. It suggests we caused something. It suggests we could fix it.

So in some senses guilt is appropriate here. You are continuing to allow yourself to be overwhelmed in care on a continuous daily basis for someone you quite honestly may LOVE but do not LIKE at all.
And you brought your overwhelm to the table for an hour, making all others feel guilty and/or bad for your pain, and then left. No help with the dishes?
So yeah, write a sweet note saying "I let myself get overwhelmed and brought it to your lovely table; I am so sorry; next time I swear I will do all the dishes".
That is it. Simple one and done.
No one cares. You gave them something to chat about over dessert.

The real question to me is what will you do about all this from now on? Will you continue to place yourself in front of the steam roller? Because it WILL flatten you every time.

Do know, Lily, yours wasn't the only family table to see drama. It's after all what the Holidays are all about in some sense, hee hee.
Look on it with a little humor and move on.
And determine to take care of yourself in future. Remember my whole thing about you are an ADULT and you and you alone are responsible for your choices for your life.

My best to you with a whip cream topping of tough love! But love, nonetheless.
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LilyLavalle Nov 2023
Both dinner and dessert were over. We were just there for the end of the event chatting. Only 3 or 4 people even heard me, and some had been caregivers themselves, so I think they were pretty sympathetic and had been through similar experiences. I felt guilty that I was talking about mom behind her back.
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You can't stand being around her because quite frankly she is not pleasant to be around. There is nothing wrong with admitting the truth. Your mom doesn't get a pass because 'she did her best'. What if this is 'your best'? Why isn't that good enough too?

Just because she has unrealistic expectations does not mean you have to try and meet them every time. Did she meet all your unrealistic expectations as a child? You decide what you are comfortable doing and that needs to be good enough. Just because she is your mother does not mean she has the 'right' to be mean or demanding of you. Learn to retrain her and yourself. When she makes you uncomfortable get up and leave. It really is that simple. If something important doesn't get done too bad. She is the one who will have to live with it, not you. What most posters here forget is that the really are the ones with all the power.
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Until someone is involved in the process of caregiving, they really have no idea how emotionally draining it is. It's a constant rollercoaster of loving that person, hating their behaviors, and wishing for relief for yourself and the "patient". Please stop beating yourself up over venting. No one can do it without release of some sort.
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