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We just came back from a visit to my 95-year-old mother's neurologist. She has been seeing this doctor once a year for the past five years because the doctor put her on a memory pill, but we had yet to get a diagnosis on whether mother has dementia or if her issues are just from old age. Today we asked her for a diagnosis, and she said it is very hard to give a diagnosis. She said the only way was for us to pay $6000 for a pet scan or for Mother to a spinal tap to check for Altheimer's, neither of which are covered by insurance. Mother is now having some rare issues with agitation that disrupts the other people at her assisted living, and the doctor reluctantly gave the AL a prescription for her to take when she has an episode but scared us greatly about how it could slow her respirations down. When I asked what we should do otherwise if she has an episode without the medication, but she never answered that. Is a pet scan or spinal tap the only way to diagnosis dementia? Am I being silly about wanting a diagnosis? I never know whether to put it on the questionnaires that her other doctors have us fill out on her visits to them. She is fairly good at answering the five questions (and they are exactly the same questions each time) that test for cognition.

Perhaps find another neurologist and pay the $6,000.
Although as another mentioned - what is your reason(ing) for wanting a diagnosis? --- If it isn't for legal authorization / documentation, what is it for?
IF she were 50 or, 60, I could understand. But at 95?

That your mother can answer those questions at 95 is quite remarkable.
I do not understand though why you say they are the same five questions year after year .. . .

Do you think your mother is remembering them - throughout - and every year? I'd be grateful to remember them five minutes from when they are presented to me.

My suggestions to you are:

ENJOY the time you have with your mom NOW ...
Be GRATEFUL for whatever cognitive abilities she has ...
REFOCUS your awareness on to her and make her life as pleasant as possible.

Whatever memory 'pill' your mother has been prescribed, I want those, too.
And, I'm only 73.

Gena / Touch Matters
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Reply to TouchMatters
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My mom’s geriatric MD had seen and treated many dementia cases and he watched her for few years and was able to diagnosis Lewy Body after looking for vitamin deficiencies, med issues etc...She was 85 when this began. She had 95% of the Lewy symptoms. I cancelled a neurologist appointment. What does it matter? Dementia is a progressive disease and advanced age {now 91} is eventually terminal. We chose to just live the best life possible. She just recently needed a Nursing Home placement for advanced care needs.. she is relaxed and calm. That is the best we could hope for. We do not want her chasing doctors for a disease you do not cure!
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Reply to Sadinroanokeva
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My mom’s 97 now..first took her to neurologist in 2013…11 years ago. He took brain MRI..which revealed mini strokes..causing dementia…first he put her on aricept, then namenda..then the agitation came...which led to another script..Seroquel. In 2021, I got mom off aricept, then namenda..because at that point…doing absolutely nothing..maybe it was withdrawal…she saw fires and floods..I had to sit up all night with her…put couch cushions on floor next to bed ..she was trying to escape bed from the fires and floods…which she accused me of starting…😢😢😢 it’s been nothing short of a nightmare journey.
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Reply to CaregiverL
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I have to ask -- and I ask respectfully -- what's the point of getting a diagnosis? She is where she is and whether it's dementia or a normal brain for a 95-year-old truly wouldn't change anything. She is 95 so, really, what difference would it make? I wish you the absolute best. There are no easy answers when dealing with a very old parents.
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TouchMatters Nov 25, 2024
It could matter if legal documents need to be in order based on an MD diagnosis. Although I agree - at 95, she is likely unable to 'care for herself' and therefore, an/other would need to manage all her affairs.

You raise a good point.

My immediate thought was the 'simple' test they give a person in the office. Remember xxx and 2-3-5 minutes later they ask what the three words were ... and count backwards, what year is it ? who is the president (although that will be a tricky question in 2025).

Thank you for your comment. Gena
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Medicare normally covers neuropsych testing done by a neuropsychologist. An M.D. is not required. I's the testing that's covered (annually), not the tester!
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Reply to Igloocar
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Technically your doc is right. Alzheimer's can only be CONFIRMED by autopsy. The different types of dementia have different symptoms and progression rates, and the best diagnosis is usually a combination of the neurologist's experience of the the symptoms and progression.
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Geaton777 Nov 19, 2024
To clarify, that was before the early 2000s. Now I think it's only CTE (Chronic traumatic encephalopathy) than can only be diagnosed/confirmed post-mortem. Today doctors can use biomarkers to confirm dementia in live patients.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/alzheimers-symptoms-and-diagnosis/how-biomarkers-help-diagnose-dementia
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I first saw “Vascular Dementia “ on my LO’s medical records after a visit with neurology to discuss his memory issues. That diagnosis was based on the in-office mental evaluation and my verbal input on what I was noticing. He was then sent to a neurophysiologist who performed further testing. That testing evaluated all aspects of dementia (judgement, critical thinking, mathematical ability, special abilities, memory, retention, etc.). It took about 2-3 hours for that evaluation, but their results agreed with the VD diagnosis and it was all based on their mental testing. That, however, made it official. I had taken him to the best neurologist I could find.
My LO can still fool people, too.
I wanted a diagnosis for various reasons
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Reply to datanp97
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My wife’s PCP gave her a SLUMS test periodically, this test shows loss of memory over 6-12 month intervals.
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Reply to BDMartin
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We were wondering the same thing about my wife, as to what type of dementia she has. If you do a little research you should be able to tell the type.
The Delaware Hospice, Palliative Care, are working with my wife here at home, they had a nurse come over and test her. This was for medicare. We received the results about 3 weeks later. They have 3 levels of dementia low, moderate and severe.
My wife came in the moderate range.
I think to be severe you have to be in very bad condition.
Short answer is Medicare has tests for this and as I said we received ours through Palliative Care.
If you have that available in your area, try them.
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Reply to Bob350
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Dementia is a catch-all phrase that covers many diseases that cause alteration in cognitive abilities. Alzheimer's disease is diagnosed with either a PET scan or a spinal tap. AARP magazine article said that scientists in Europe have discovered a blood test for a biomarker for Alzheimer's disease with 90% accuracy. Hope it will be available in the USA soon. Alzheimer's is hard to positively diagnose otherwise but usually is noted by increasingly impaired judgment, short term memory loss, eventual long term memory loss and eventual failure to thrive as sufferers forget basic tasks. A stroke can cause dementia and is diagnosed through a CT or MRI scan. Parkinson's disease causes dementia and id noted by eventual issues with dopamine in the brain. These are the major causes of dementia but other diseases can cause dementia too. Each can be helped with different medications.

Ask your neurologist which type of cognitive impairment your loved one most likely has. Ask for information about usual progression of the disease. Ask for advice on what medications and therapy is most helpful for your loved one at their current stage of the disease.
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Reply to Taarna
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I read more or your profile. Mom not liking food might be a sign of a higher stage of dementia. My mom said she was hungry a lot then ate little saying she was full during the last 2 years of her life.You can ask about that to her doctor of disliking food might be a sign that her body is starting to shut down...nothing to be ashamed of.
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Reply to MACinCT
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Sorry, but your mom's neurologist doesn't seem to be thorough. There are brain scans and MRI tests that should have been recommended a long time ago. Prescribing medications without testing is guessing. There are different stages of Dementia and different types. Maybe your mom's doctor doesn't feel the need to be more aggressive due to her age. There are doctors who don't push for further testing due to age. I saw that with my mom's cardiologist, and so symptoms are overlooked. I would find a different doctor or just go with the flow depending on your mom's commorbitities.
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Reply to Onlychild2024
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I would find a new doctor that work a little harder to evaluate her by ordering cognitive tests. There are several, including one that tests functional memory and behaviors. Occupational therapists use it and it involves sewing, not remembering numbers, dates, word, etc, like the MOCA.
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Reply to ShirleyDot
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asfastas1can: The neurologist should have ordered a brain M.R.I.
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Reply to Llamalover47
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My mother (84) was initially diagnosed as cortical volume loss by her neurologist, and a recent mri was part of it. After 6 months we were noticing more decline and we saw him again. He referred her to a neuropsychologist and he did a lengthy series of tests, about 3 hours. We left out that day with a diagnosis of Alzheimer’s.
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I totally agree with @darts1975. A neuropsychologist evaluation is covered by Medicare and is not invasive. While I did not learn a name for my husband's decline, several questions I had about his behavior were answered and she put names to several of his behaviors that helps me be more patient. He also has Parkinson's Disease. The terms she shared were Motor Perseveration, Reduplicative Paramnesia and Confabulation. It has since progressed to where I have to admit he has dementia plain and simple no matter what the type.

However, a friend had her husband tested by the same doctor after being told by another he simply had Parkinson's related dementia. He was then diagnosed with Vascular dementia which finally explained many of the issues she had been dealing with.

So no, having insights to my husband's behavior and having a name for my friend did not necessarily help either of us handle things better but the insights we both gained helped greatly in accepting things the way they were.

After hearing of the experiences of two of my Parkinson's support group friends, I have signed an agreement (not a contract) to donate his brain for research upon his death. He was already an organ donor and I know this is not the same, but felt he would want to help further research. I discussed it with our two sons to be sure they had no problem and they agreed. My two friends finally got a diagnosis of the type dementia their husbands had been dealing with and at this point, that will be sufficient for me.

Here is the program in our state: https://medicine.musc.edu/departments/pathology/division-of-experimental-pathology/ccnl/how-to-become-a-donor

In both cases, they said they paid nothing. They actually saved money because the program transported the body to the research center 100 miles away and within about 24 hours transported it to the funeral home the family had chosen. They both were impressed with how professional and respectful everything was handled.
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Reply to KPWCSC
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I agree that it’s not worth putting her through the PET or spinal tap. We took my mom to 2 different clinics specializing in memory care and she did the 30 question test at both. Based on her scores and our (and her) personal detailed interviews, they both diagnosed her with vascular dementia. The first place we went felt more like a clinic that wanted to do a lot of clinical trial-type stuff on her which she was not having. The 2nd place where we are now provided a wonderful geriatrician and is heavy on the family support we, as her kids, were looking for. I told him mom really needs for a doctor to “name” what she’s dealing with and he looked her straight in the eyes and said “are you ready for this? You have dementia.” Then proceeded to show her her MRI scans and explain them. She really appreciated that- of course forgot about it within days. 😂 My point is, you can probably figure out for yourself based on the MMRE test and looking at various websites with dementia symptoms if this is what she’s got. The sudden agitation & swearing is def a symptom and something we have also been dealing with. I just keep talking calmly to her through it and recognize her frustrations and she calms down pretty quickly.
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Dave472 Nov 23, 2024
My mom had recent brain MRI tests, CT scan and some other tests for an unrelated issue a couple years ago that were clear. The Doctor gave her the 30 question test a couple times and she scored 25 out of 30 both times, first time about 18 months ago, then more recently in September. She is 80 and is forgetful sometimes and does not drive anymore. But, other than battles with the C-PAP machine is easy going. What are the "memory pills" that are refered to in some of the comments I read here?
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Do you think if you got the answer you would be able to handle things better? My point is she's 95 why on earth would you put her thu anything like that. You have nothing to gain. She made it thru her 90s let her be and enjoy her history.
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Reply to LoniG1
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I understand. My mother is 97 and keeps telling me to call the doctor for more "memory pills"
I lie and tell her they are checking. She's happy with that answer for a few weeks and the game goes on. They can't give her any more. She's maxed out. Good luck.😘
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Reply to Tflowers
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Quite frankly, the doctors won't answer your questions directly. They dance around with vague responses. I had the same frustration with my stepmother's gastroenterologist who wouldn't give us a straight answer about her liver diagnosis. At a certain point, I wanted to know what her life expectancy was and all he would tell us is how he would add or change medications to make her comfortable. It was terminable, but he wouldn't say it.

YOU already know what's going on with your mother. You don't need the expensive scans to confirm the doctors care or your intuition on her diagnosis. You may be a little in denial about it.

My dad lives with me and is also good about answering those five questions with his doctor, but I know he's showing definite signs of dementia (he's 91-1/2 yo). I've learned with him that it is better not to mention the word "dementia" to him because it means something terrible to him. I've also learned that all that you've mentioned about your mother, my dad will likely experience the same as his "vascular dementia" progresses.

Everyone replying on the forum obviously understands and you can find much understanding and support here, if not a solid solution because there is no "solid solution". Good luck.
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Reply to joyceab
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We had to wait 18 months to get with a neuropsychologist. He did testing that took several hours. In the end, she got diagnosed with vascular dementia.

Before you go down that road, make sure Wills, POA and trust (if needed) are established.
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Reply to darts1975
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So the general term is memory loss. Sometimes it takes progressive behavior changes to determine the type of affliction that still will not get an accurate diagnosis until brain biopsies upon death if you want to pay for it. It should be enough with minor testing for ADLs for a doctor to sign a form for MC or SNF. She is now on medication? If it helps then OK. If she gets an MRI, CT or PET and something is found. So what? Is this a want to know or need to know? The disease will still be progressive with no cure in sight.. I feel that you can cross off the reason as old age. Members of my family made it into their 90s with one keeping all her faculties and the other had the diagnosis of memory loss just by her PCP.
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LoniG1 Nov 17, 2024
What a great comment. Thank you very much
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My husband, at 93 1/2, had Parkinson's dementia. I have found that at that age, it almost doesn't matter what the particular dementia is, it is the behaviors and cognitive issues that matter and need to be mitigated and managed. At that age, it is absolutely also normal to show shrinking of the brain and maybe more white matter. What can be helpful are scans that identify which part of the brain is being affected by either small strokes, clogged vessels, various proteins build up, or whatever. I know that related people may want to know exactly what the diagnosis is for their own medical history, but it sometimes is enough to know that there is longevity with the possibility of cognitive issues or dementia.

BTW, we knew it was Parkinson's at first because of gait issues that caribdopa-levadopa helped. We knew it wasn't Lewy Body Disease because his motor problems preceded his cognitive problems. With LBD, it usually the other way around, but we also couldn't rule out a mixed type of dementia. Did it matter? No. Treatment was the same. In his decline did he do progressively worse on the 30 questions? Absolutely, yes.
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Reply to Gigabee
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I'm trying to figure out how to get my 77-yesr-old mom properly diagnosed as well. It's hard to get a diagnosis especially with someone high functioning. My mom looks normal but once you see her daily it’s clear she has memory loss, auditory hallucinations, paranoia, and anger issues. Good luck.
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Reply to SingleChildHelp
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My mom had a brain MRI and it showed normal shrinking of her brain. The doctor then asked about mom’s routines and changes. She was able to pass the 3-5 questions but not the 30 questions.
The doctor then asked me (without her there) how she was doing. I told her that I was paying her bills and cooking and making sure she takes her pills. I told him that she had memories that didn’t match facts and she filled in facts on recent situations. I was there and knew the real story. The doctor said she was showing signs of cognitive decline and was probably getting close to moderate vascular dementia due to the brain scan. It is true the only definitive way to get a diagnosis is invasive but that can be avoided with a doctor not afraid to say the hard words. Her neurologist wasn’t that helpful but her geriatrician was helpful. The neurologist did help with the driving situation. He suggested that for the safety of her and others, he recommended a driving evaluation. This was self pay through a wonderful place that when I took my mom there, she refused to participate. They gave me the money back. :) BTW, the geriatrician was the only one that was willing to put the diagnosis/symptom in writing. That allowed us to sell mom’s home when she went to a AL. I spent a great deal of time learning how to reassure mom and learn her ways. I used my words to let her know that I love her and I am her memory…..”try it Mom, I will remember for you”. She was sad but reassured.
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Reply to Tandemfun4us
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Vladtheimpaler Nov 17, 2024
wow, you are doing way better than me with my Dad. My dad is so very uncooperative in every way possible. Yes, he has vascular dementia. That was diagnosed with a brain scan which showed various areas of brain ischemia. I was asked if my dad ever had a stroke. I never knew of any signs or complaints, but his brain scan showed otherwise. The dr in the emergency room showed me the scan right there in the ER. Also, the asked me if he smoked. He never did..then they showed me his extensive lung scarring..This was a diagnosis of lung ischemia. Then they tell me that he as coronary heart decease , and an almost clogged heart valve.. All 3 of these factors contributed to a diagnosis of vascular dementia. Every time they brought him back to life, he was able to answer the magic question and sign himself out and back into the world.. Even after we finally got him a TAVR and pace maker months later.. he once again was asked the magic questions and was signed out..with his vascular dementia, TAVR & pace maker..free to roan the streets of NYC..Free to run his life and business..until 1.5 months later when he drove his car up to a place he has been a 1000 times..only this time he parked his car in the middle of the parking lot of some convenience store and he did not know where he was or what day it was or what time it was..and that changed everything..And it happened so fast before the system got a hold of him and his assets to pay for private nursing care since he had assets..no medicaid for him..I took over his life and now I am the devil incarnate.. Now he's an angry man wanting to go home. When you talk to him, ya would thing he is ok and doesn't belong where he his.but give it 10 more minutes, and then ya will see the confusion. He is high functioning.. He says he does not belong in the facility he is in, says he has nothing in common with these people, meaning the other residents. He says he wants me to let him go and not worry about him, to have nothing to do with him. His drivers license was suspended because he did not show up for a DMV reevaluation..He said he will drive anyway..he says he doesn't care. I tell him he could have an accident and hurt or kill someone, and then the state will take over his life,.. he says, "I dont care. let them".. The system is not very helpful to people like us, especially if there are assets involved. It really is a racket.. No one will take responsibility. but they sure have a lot of answers for you...Even lying to them is an acceptable means of communication..unbeleavable.. Ive noticed the there are a lot more women in these facilities than men..
they seem to be more cooperative than men in general..at least from what ive witnessed..Its a curse for my dad to be going what he is going thru, And he doesn't even know why? One moment he was in his home or business sitting around with everything falling apart around him which he was quite content in doing so, and next he's in in a memory care facility trying to get out for 14 months now..and even succeeded in escaping this week..only to get rounded up and sent to the hiospital and back to the place he escaped from.. The next day he asked one of the maintenance people to call him a taxi..You are blessed to have this kind of relationship with your mom..
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I use to work at a memory clinic. There is no one hundred percent accurate way of diagnosing a dementia in early stage. Scans, a memory test and information from the individuals nearest and dearest are used to make a diagnosis. But occasionally a diagnosis can be incorrect usually by under diagnosing dementia. If the team are not confident in giving a diagnosis with the information they have they usually dont as it can cause great distress to the individual.
Scans sometimes show as normal but the behaviour suggests they have a dementia and sometimes vice versa.
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Reply to Bungle
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Momma's doctor put her on Seroquel, for axiety, aggitation and Sundowners.
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Reply to BeckysStuff
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If the memory pill she has been on is Aricept or similar, it usually only works for about 2 years and then it is no longer helpful. But to be on a prescription memory pill from a neurologist would imply she had a diagnosis. I would ask this question point blank to the neurologist: doesn't a patient need a diagnosis in order to be prescribed a memory medication?

I think you need a different neurologist. But if I were you I would set up an appointment with your Mom's primary doctor for her annual (free) Medicare wellness exam. Through your Mom's medical portal, request she be assessed through a MoCA or SLUMs test. Tell them the symptoms and the concerns you have (and that the neurologist seems to be unhelpful). IMO your Mom doesn't need to have her dementia pinpointed since her very advanced age would not make her a candidate for any treatment action.

If she really somehow doesn't have a diagnosis, then I have to ask why does that matter now? Are you her PoA and you need a diagnosis to activate your authority? Other than this I don't know why you would put her through further advanced testing.
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Reply to Geaton777
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This is a neuro-psyc MD?
Because I am shocked that no scans and other testing is covered if your mother is on Medicare.
She should go for another opinion.
Many dementia's have to be IN EARLY STAGES guessed at for type. Others will show on scans as vessel disease or mini infarcts. My brother's early Lewy's was diagnosed as "probable early Lewy's Dementia by symptoms" and it was symptoms that were the only thing that showed. Later, in later stages it is easier to decide from scans, MRI and etc what type of dementia is involved. My brother had hallucinations and such typical of Lewy's.

This is a long time with "memory problems". I do not know what the MoCa (Montreal test) score is or the SLUMS test, but you can administer these yourself to your mom after watching on Youtube how it is done.

Basically in the end you do not need to know that your mother has a specific type of dementia. What you need to know is whether, in the opinion of her own doctor and a neuro-psyc, what is safe for her in terms of executive funcitons, being alone on her own and doing any documents. So the question is, what are my mother's deficits, are they progressing, and is she safe in self care or now requiring 24/7 help.

I hope you will get better answers. Sadly the definitive diagnosis comes after death with autopsy, if at that time anyone really truly cares/needs to know. Some dementias do tend to recur in families, and some do not. So it is good to know all you can.
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