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kryptoid, here is something that your wife might not realize... up to 40% of family caregivers die leaving behind the love one they were caring. Not good odds. Now what? Her children will be without a Mother, you without a Wife, and a Dad without his Daughter.

Let her know that could happen if she thinks she can do the work for 3 full-time caregivers each and every day.

I like Barb's idea of your wife going to the nursing home and do the work of all the caregivers on her own for 2 days. I vote for 3 days. Working all 3 shifts.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
I agree with you, but she won’t (can’t) go to the NH. At this point, he’s already checked out, so once he gets discharged from the hospital she will try to bring him to our home. Communication is poor from her, she’s not being transparent with me on most of his care, I’m assuming she doesn’t want to let me know so that she can just do a surprise he’s here move.
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I don’t know if you have school holidays coming up, but if so I’d suggest that you take the kids away while she brings Dad home. You are ‘letting her have a chance to settle him in without the problems of running the house’. It will avoid the initial ‘knock down drag fights’, and might bring her up to reality quickly.

I’d also visit the NH, tell them the story, and see if they will put the discharge on hold for two or three weeks. You pay, or perhaps they use the room for respite. You may be able to deal with this better after this ‘trial period’.

And certainly don't help her move all this furniture!
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kryptoid Sep 2022
I am never leaving my home, I’ve worked too hard on this place to leave, we rebuilt it together and just finished it this past year. It really upsets me that she wants to throw away all of our hard work. Too late to talk to the hospital, but I do think I need to talk to a social worker from the hospital about the case, hope they can intervene, but I’m worried it could cause more backlash if she sees me going behind her back.
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Let me get this straight. Your FIL who is an invalid has been living in a nursing home for a few years.
Your wife who has never visited him there now wants to take him out of the nursing home and move him into your home.
Before any rash decisions are made and your invalid FIL is moved into your house, suggest to your wife that she start visiting her father in the nursing home a few days a week. You know to test the waters a little bit. If she had to take two days off from work because she had him for a holiday, this is not going to work out.
Your wife who is a nurse has real life experience dealing with CNA's, invalids, and elders. She knows there isn't going to be any 35 hours a week of aide care paid for by Medicare or Medicaid. That $800 a month income he gets isn't going to go far.
Your wife needs to hear a hard 'NO' from you on her father moving in. If she continues to be persist with this insanity, You will have to take your kids and move out. She will not be able to adequately care for two small children and also be a full-time caregiver to an elderly invalid.
Mstrbill is right. Your children will suffer the most. So will your FIL. Your wife for some reason wants to create the perfect conditions for elder and child abuse and she will if she tries to do this.
Make sure you have an exit plan for you and your kids. In the meantime talk to a lawyer about what's going on and what your wife is planning.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
See my other post for more info/background. This is such an expansive issue that it’s very difficult to type out every detail involved. I’m trying to give everyone the facts, and not sound one sided. I also don’t think that she cares whether or not Medicare/Medicaid covers any services, as she thinks she can do it all.
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Read up about Fear, Obligation and Guilt (F.O.G.).

Print off an article you find that you think will resonate with her.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Thanks, I’ll look into that. I know for a fact she is suffering from guilt. She didn’t have a good relationship with her dad or family when she was younger and now she is trying to make up for that. When he was healthy, they really never did anything together.
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O lord, I'm so sorry. Your poor children are likely going to suffer the most. If I were you, I'd see an attorney and do whatever you have to do to protect your children if she really goes through with this. As much as you may care for your wife, what she is doing is not only irrational, but it will also irreparably harm your family. not to mention it will be unsafe for FIL. There is no in home help that Medicare pays for. Medicaid possibly may offer some assistance, but you'd have to check with social services in your State. Don't expect much. I'm so sorry you are in this situation, but am especially concerned for your children.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
I will represent myself before I ever hire another attorney here. They are worthless, and you have a better chance on your own than relying on a lawyer. I would like to avoid divorce, I love my wife and family more than anything in the world, and I’m willing to do what it takes to find a solution. I understand that I will be the bad guy, and there will be resentment towards me, but I would rather take that role than the other way where myself and our kids have animosity towards her. I know that my side of the family would pretty much disown her if she does this, and so it’s been hard to use them as a support system. I’m having to use friends, some mutual as support and they are all scratching their heads wondering what the heck is she thinking.
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This is a tough one because I think your wife is living in a dream world but one that’s created by panic, guilt, love and who knows what else. My guess is if she were consulting with a friend wanting to do this because of her expertise she would say do t do it. But when we are in these crisis modes with our loved ones we get blinded by our desire to fix the crisis and often make poor decisions in the heat of the moment. I’m sure you have approached this subject with compassion but one or both of you couldn’t keep an open mind so now you are fighting which never accomplishes anything other than frustration in a case like this.

The home care help from Medicaid really depends on the state your in, some have good programs and some seem to have little to none but a quick computer search of your Agency on Aging or the equivalent, the state site under elderly and or disabled as well as your town who may have some services for at least pointing you in the right direction. It can take time however, especially since he has been in a facility because they are two different programs, at least that has been my experience. All of that said maybe approach your wife kindly and lovingly again (even if you don’t really feel that way at the moment) Ellington her you are open to ideas and want to really hear what she is thinking and feeling. Why was he put in a nursing home in the first place, who made that decision and why? What has changed since then for the better as far as his needs go? Why didn’t she want to take him in then and why does she want to now? You care about your FIL too and want what’s best for him and you want what is best for her, your children and yourself as well. Go from there and see if the two of you can more calmly talk through this obviously hot subject. You need to give her consideration and power in this decision just as she needs to give the same to you. The home and the kids are both of yours and both of your responsibility.

The things that should be considered here are other nursing homes if that one won’t take him back or can’t be forced to, who knows maybe another one closer to you has opened up but there is a better shot at getting him in from the hospital than from home so don’t bring him home until you have talked through the reasons he can’t stay in facility care.

It sounds like he might be a candidate for Hospice, I know they won’t put tubes in but I’m not sure how they handle a patient with one already, find out and maybe the two of you should sit down with them so they can tell you why they would take it out and if he would qualify with or without it because your wife may be able to see the forest behind the trees hearing what she already knows from another professional and if he wouldn’t qualify with or without the tube that also says something.

I can’t imagine wanting to move someone in on a feeding tube and bed bound already. Is he able to communicate in any way? Does he want to have the feeding tube? She isn’t thinking like a nurse rite now she’s thinking like a daughter. Nothing wrong with that and no surprise but if you can ask her questions that make her think like a nurse, what has to be done to care for a feeding tube, how will you get him to the bathroom, where will we put him, the kids need to have their rooms… Try, hard as I think it may be, to be support for your wife, go to meetings with other care professionals and participate, ask the questions she may not want to because she knows the answer, help her come to terms with the end of her fathers life here. Go out to dinner with the family, remind her of the things to look forward to, the things and people that give her strength and hopefully clarity. She probably feels trapped rite now, help her find the way out.

You aren’t wrong, in fact you are spot on but she needs to come to that conclusion herself and having some help and support is probably more likely to get her there than more stress and ultamatives. It may not too but try again.
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Cover999 Sep 2022
I think she" burned that bridge" with the current NH since she closed the account while he was in the hospital.
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He barely talks, but is he competent enough to say anything? She closed his account; is she his POA? She plans to give up her job rather than apply for FMLA so this is not a trial, not hospice?

Seek individual and marriage counseling. Encourage her to ask about why visiting him hasn’t been feasible but this total disruption of home, occupation, and family is.

Educate yourself about divorce and family law so you can ask intelligent questions when you see a lawyer.

Work out a plan for what to do if she unilaterally brings him home. If you stay and participate, your easiest way out is someone’s next hospital stay.

Do you leave? Do you take the kids or leave them with her; would you seek custody? Do you go to a hotel or to family/friends? Is your home rented; when does the lease renew? What rights do you have to accounts/assets and income?

If the fights are physical (literally knock down drag out) consider the consequences of a restraining order, yours or hers. Fighting damages your children, so if the only way to stop fighting is to separate immediately, do that instead.

Ask the lawyer about requiring disability insurance so she can pay support if she is injured doing a two person job by herself while sleep deprived.

Medicaid is essentially a form of welfare: bureaucratic, slow to process requests and payments, zero goal of competitive compensation. Not an employer preferred by anyone not desperate.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
So he can talk a little, but he is hard to understand and most of the time is completely lost. She is saying that being in the nursing home has caused that, but I don’t believe that. One of the nurses recently told her that that was his baseline, and she got into it with her disagreeing, saying that he does much better. He’s had an NG in him since the stroke, he can’t eat or drink in his own without aspirating. He actually ended up in the hospital about 6 months ago with pneumonia from aspirating some fluids, and she of course blamed the NH. I have no idea what’s going to happen or when..if I was to estimate I’d say within the next week to two weeks. I agree on counseling, can we afford it? No, but I will do whatever I can to try it.
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Print out your concerns and give her the letter.

The very obvious (to all of us, and you) is that this idea, while kind hearted, is a hard no.

Why at this point in dad's life is she feeling the need to intervene in such a dramatic fashion? Suddenly realizing that her dad is not going to live forever? Guilt over not being around him a lot?

If you are fighting over this NOW, then it isn't going to get better. But you know that.

My DH wanted to bring his dad to our house. I firmly said "no" over and over. Finally I said HE could bring dad to live in our house but my 2 youngest daughters and I would not live there. It got that nasty before he realized I was right---but when he talks of it now (almost 19 years ago!) he still paints me as the 'bad guy' who wouldn't take in his father. Still.

We should have had couples counseling about it so that 100% of the blame didn't fall on me, but it was what it was.

Barb had the best answer. Let your wife care for him in his NH for 2 straight days and see how she feels.
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Beatty Sep 2022
"he still paints me as the 'bad guy". Shame on him!

I heard someone recently referring to the same deal.
He had wanted to move his Mother in, spouse said no & copped the blame.

These folk need to OWN their behaviour, of ignoring & stomping all over their spouse's "NO". For wanting their spouse to OBEY them & also for continuing to blame.

Their own behaviour is indeed shameful!
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Is she wanting to take him out of NH because he got a UTI? Certainly she should address this with the staff there, but imho there's nothing to prevent him from getting another UTI at home while being cared for by a soon-to-be burnt out caregiver. It looks like your wife, as noble a person as she may be, is jumping from frying pan into the fire and assuming you're willing to pick up any slack. She's risking her marriage, family, career, her own health. And to what end? Perhaps she will feel better about herself for a while, but your FIL may be no better off, indeed maybe worse. I agree with BarbBrooklyn that your wife would be wise to take on your FIL's care while he's still in NH for a reality check.
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Putting her dad above her own children to keep him at home is a big NO.
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Consider asking her to take some PTO, go to the NH and provide his care, completely by herself, for 2 days.
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Beatty Sep 2022
Agree. But as a nurse I imagine she will do fine.

The big difference between a *trial of care* & the *real deal* is the other life responsibilities: especially children! Their needs, meals, driving here & there, homework support, activities, household cleaning/cooking/laundry.

In 2 days it is still possible to be deep in denial about how much time & effort will be needed.
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Unfortunately this might break up your family. You know you can't do this and your wife is fooling herself if she thinks she can.

When a person is incontinent UTIs can happen.

The only solution is to tell her fkat out that he cannot live in the house with whatever consequences you want to give if she does it anyway.

Sorry about your situation. It sucks. And your wife sounds like she has mental issues. I mean knock down drag out fights over this. What the hell is wrong with her? I wonder if you look at other aspects of your relationship you may realize that she is not that great of a person over all.
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kryptoid Sep 2022
Finally getting to reply to your post. I have several others to reply to so I'll try to keep them short but concise.

The UTI was nothing major, and he has only had 2 hospital trips in the past 3 years from the NH, so I don't see any issue with them. I remember my mom dealing with my grandmother when she was in and out of the hospital every week just being in assisted living.

I think we all sort of have some mental issues, some more than others for sure. I do think this is caused from her upbringing. That would take a while to explain, but it wasn't a good one, and her dad fought to have his kids in his life. Now whether he did that to get back at his ex wife, or truly loved his kids, I don't know.
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