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I think my father's generation pretty much grew up expecting kids to help out. And that's ok except when it places undue stress on a person's own health, family, relationships or finances. Boundaries are important and it shouldn’t be a given. An adult should be aware that they are going to age and plan accordingly. It is the responsible adult thing to do. We have seen from the pandemic how few people ever save money for emergencies. A lot of people live without a thought of tomorrow. I don’t have children and I do have an IRA and a LTC policy. We both do. My husband thought spending all that money on LTC policy was a waste until he saw what it cost for my dad to live in IL, AL, and LTC. I too will be stockpiling pills so that I don’t live the end of my life the way my dad did.
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probably generational. People used to take care of their family members without thinking about it. What is it like to be losing control over everything thing in your life. Even the smallest decision? There is usually a reason people do what they do. Is this your mother's way of getting assurance that she is loved and accepted? One thing I do not believe one would ever regret is to take care of their parents to the absolute best of their ability. Even if appreciation is not shown. This is also probably one of the most important things children can experience seeing others do. IT IS NOT easy, but it IS right.
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disgustedtoo Sep 2020
"...take care of their parents to the absolute best of their ability."

Agreed when possible, BUT this does NOT mean we have to provide the actual care, nor does it mean we have to kowtow to every whim and demand. The best of my ability is to ensure my mother is in a very nice, safe place, cared for better than I ever could do, and manage everything for her, while visiting when I can.

Even this isn't always possible. If there are no funds to cover a place, our choices are very limited. Some people cannot provide in-home care if they are still working and raising a family. Some of us are seniors ourselves and have our own physical and medical limitations. There are NO simple answers.
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The latter.
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I'm sorry to hear about what is happening to you, and have a mother very similar to yours who is beyond difficult, demanding, and never happy. I help her as much as I can AND want to, and set strict boundaries that I firmly keep. She has many options but would rather complain instead and lay the guilt at my feet. However, I have learned to compartmentalize and prioritize so she doesn't overwhelm me because that's actually on me if I let her get to me. Narcissists don't change because they think the problem is you and everyone else; they don't see you as a person, rather someone who can do their bidding. I have learned to focus on what she needs to be healthy and safe, and tune out miscellaneous complaints, etc. You might gain a great deal from researching narcissism and applying some of what you learn about how to deal with such a person. Narcissists groom and manipulate certain people to react to their every need. It takes time and practice, but is worth it to be released from her hold.
Save your energy to focus on the positives in your life - your family and and whatever else gives you strength to stay as healthy as you can and to enjoy life.
I have helped with my aunts who have passed and now my mother, and my husband and I are both retired and are very active and enjoy helping with our grandchildren. When the need arises for us to get help (we're in our mid 60s), we both want to stay in our home as long as possible, get help in, and if needed, move to senior living or a smaller home.
Take care of yourself and I wish you and everyone here the best!
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After caring for my Husband I decided that I was not going to "expect" any family member to care for me.
I grew up in a care-giving household. My Mom died of cancer and she was taken care of at home when possible, my grandma had cancer and my Dad took care of her while battling his own cancer. So caregiving was what was done. But I do not expect my stepdaughter or step son to help care for me, I do not expect my sister to care for me. I have also informed them of my health care wishes. I have a Will and POA selected for Health and Financial. (I should make some changes to the Will though...)
While caring for my Husband I made the decision to buy Long Term Care Insurance. Yes the payment once a year hurts! But not as much as the hurt, anger, resentment of family would.
The house I am in I bought when I knew my Husband would need a place that was accessible so I plan on "aging in place" in a house built for it.
And I have actually gone through closets, the basement and tossed stuff out or donated. I want no one to have to weed thorough my "treasures" so I am trying to cull out stuff that I really am not attached to.
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This trip you mom is taking is not yor own swrtitingn

endure it....
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Harpcat Sep 2020
Uh...what was that last word????
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First of all, I am so sorry about your situation. You know that you made the right decision regarding the care of your mom and may I say congratulations on not taking her bait.

I had unusual circumstances that caused me to allow my mom to move into our family home. She had just lost everything she owned in Hurricane Katrina. She had no flood insurance because it wasn’t required in her neighborhood. The only reason why her home had nine feet of water was because the levee broke.

Mom was emotionally devastated. So was I. I felt so badly for her that I wasn’t thinking clearly at the time. It was my childhood home where I grew up.

Mom had little funds, certainly not enough for an assisted living facility like your mom lives. I didn’t consider a nursing home as an option either. I just wanted to comfort her. I had compassion because I am a charitable person at heart.

My emotions got in the way of thinking clearly. I had promised my father that I would always care for her after his death. She needed me more. She no longer drove due to her Parkinson’s. Well, you get the picture.

The dynamic of the relationship changed after she moved in with us. It didn’t start out badly but it surely ended up being a challenging and difficult experience.

All I can say is that I felt as if I lived with her instead of her living in my home with us. She had a strong desire to still be ‘mom.’ She didn’t seem to respect me as her adult daughter instead of her daughter as a child.

Anyway, periodically I would hear my daughters say to me, “Mom, we will take care of you like you are taking care of grandma.” My children adore her and she adores them. I have never interfered in their relationship.

I did not wish to take my children’s grandmother from them, nor take her grandchildren from her and they get along well.

I did tell my children though that while I appreciated their sentiments I did not want them to care for me. At first they responded with, “But we want to do it, Mom.” I said to them, “That will change if I am no longer capable of caring for myself and I never want you to feel obligated to care for me.”

So, I am breaking the cycle of family caregivers and I am totally at peace with my decision.

I am also at peace with my mom being cared for with hospice and that she is no longer in my home. I speak to her but she is nearly deaf now. Communication is difficult.

I have a hunch that the younger generation will not be as quick to decide to be caregivers as past generations. Just look at the number of assisted living facilities that have been built. It’s a huge business!
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Takincare Sep 2020
Completely agree about breaking the cycle. DH and I do not want to burden our children or grandchildren in our later years either which is why we have a life insurance policy that will pay for in home care or a very large percentage of AL. If there are funds left in policy it will revert back to the estate upon our death. It is expensive but well worth the cost in the long run to break the chain. They will be able to remain our children and advocates without the need to do the physical day to day caregiving. After caring for MIL in my home it lit a fire under our rears to clear out, pitch, declutter, donate, and organize our home. You would be surprised how much "stuff" has accumulated over the years that is completely unnecessary and just taking up space. This was also a great time to have them go thru all their "treasures" still here and get them out of the house too, just told them do it now or you'll have to deal with it later.
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Egads, I think your mother and my mother are twins that were separated at birth! Today I find out that she's been giving my son an earful about how she 'should be' living with ME at my house, and not in the AL where I 'put' her! Meanwhile, she's been living there since 2015 but now she's in the Memory Care annex since her dementia has progressed to a moderate level. That and she's in a wheelchair. To hear HER tell it, there is NOTHING wrong with her at ALL, she has NO memory issues whatsoever, needs NO help with ANY activities of daily life, and would be fine taking care of herself alone in my home all day long! My God, a total joke since she can't even get dressed by herself and her wheelchair would not fit thru ONE of my bathroom doors, not to mention the showers all have tubs which she wouldn't be able to even step into! She wouldn't even be able to feed herself, never mind get out of bed in the morning and to/from the toilet!

These types of women live to complain and to blame US for all their misery. My mother is soon to be 94 and hasn't had ONE day in all those years where her life has been 'enough'. My father was never 'enough', either, and she was glad when he died! Her chronic, endless complaining and misery consists of her legs hurting and here I am, going for surgery tomorrow which I haven't even bothered telling her about. What for? If it doesn't involve HER, it doesn't matter. Ain't that the truth?

My DH and I have 7 children between us; we will NOT be a burden to ANY of our children if we live long enough to get to old age, and will have enough opiates on hand to do away with ourselves if/when the time comes. Plus, Colorado is an assisted suicide state, so we're all set.

Wishing you good luck and Godspeed with your chemo treatments, my friend. I pray that you have a full recovery with no more cancer diagnoses ever again.
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dogparkmomma Sep 2020
My very wonderful brother in law died a little over 3 years ago from cancer. In the end, he was in pain and had moved to hospice. He did avail himself of assisted living laws in California to end it. It had involved interviews with doctors and was not an easy thing to do as it required taking a large amount of pills.

maybe 6 months later my FIL asked me how to get the same type of pills that my brother in law had taken. I must say I was shocked but I did explain that it is not legal in our state and he had been dying of cancer when those pills were taken. I told him that he could not get those pills just because he was old. He dropped it. He died 2 years later, this past May.

Several of you have mentioned stockpiling opiates so that you could end things. Might not be that easy and I am a little worried that by the time I felt ready to do it, I would not be able to initiate the action. My in-laws both died in the past year. They lived in their own home until October 2018. They probably should have moved a couple of years earlier. They lived great lives and she was 93 and he was 95. Luckily they saved their money and had enough to pay for memory care rooms for both of them. We did supervise them and visit them after moving them to our town. I would hope for something similar with less dementia. We are getting ready to move closer to our daughter. Not super close but closer than 2000. I plan to monitor our situation and take action to move if we cannot manage on our own. Not making them stress the way we did. I am a nurse and I feel like that helped me guide their process. My son is engaged to a lovely girl. Pills could be in my future as well I guess but we will see.
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As we get older and our freedoms diminish along with our dreams and aspirations, our world gets very small. Little things take on more significance. Cut your mother some slack and tune her out if you have other things on your mind that you feel are more important.
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MJ1929 Sep 2020
^^^This is very, very true. My father said these very words -- "My world has gotten so small" -- to me when my mother's care made it impossible for them to travel, go out to dinner, or enjoy any of the things they once enjoyed. He had lost control of life, and as he wasn't suffering from any memory loss or health issues, it was devastating for him.

I've said it time and again, but as our parents get old, they revert to more toddler-like behavior in many ways. You wouldn't begrudge a toddler your attention for a sore knee or an earache, but because it's your mother who was once an adult who could care for herself, you can't understand why she doesn't just suck it up and deal with it. Unfortunately, she can't, and that's just how it is.

I clearly remember when my relationship with my own mother shifted from mother/daughter to daughter/mother. If you haven't taken that step mentally, I think it makes it much more difficult for you to work with your mother's limitations.

You need to put your own health first, but keep in mind that she's not necessarily trying to get attention or demand she be kept in the lifestyle to which she's become accustomed, but rather she is someone with diminishing capabilities, knows she is near the end of her life, and is quite honestly afraid of what's to come as we all will be someday. Try to keep that in mind as you deal with her.

My mother is 91 and is terrified she's going to die before she gets old. She doesn't know she's already old, but she knows she's scared of dying. That's how her mind works now. She, too, vowed she wouldn't be a burden to her children. She battled with her father over hearing aids because he didn't want them, and everyone was tired of yelling not to be heard. So guess what my mother fought us on when she was losing her hearing? Yup.

I'd just say that OP needs to take care of her health first and foremost, but definitely cut her mother some slack. It's easy to look at old age from the perspective of a younger person, but the reality is very different once we arrive at that place. Be kind to your mom.
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My mom is the nicest person you would ever know, but I would not wish her or my life on anyone.  I will stock up on Oxy whatevers and plan my own final exit
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cherokeegrrl54 Sep 2020
Agree 100% with you on this!!
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Having watched two generations having a miserable existence I think a lot of us will decide to leave this earth when we feel we have had enough.
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Invisible Sep 2020
And then there is hope - a human condition - for a better tomorrow.
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My dad had a firm rule of his own making that he wouldn’t allow any of us to live with him, nor him to live with any of us. He said he’d seen it ruin too many relationships. I remain grateful for his wisdom. So, no, I don’t think a particular generation expects more, I think it’s individual. And I doubt future generations will be doing a lot of hands on caregiving, they’re too busy staring at their phones (apologies for stereotyping 😜) Please place first priority on your care, you’re no good to anyone of not to yourself. Wishing you the best
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NeedHelpWithMom Sep 2020
You have a very smart dad! Love the comment about the phones. It always amazes me when I see a family with mom, dad and kids eating dinner together and texting each other!
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I still remember the day I had to sit on a bus and think (this was about a child, not a parent) "You may have to accept that ___________ may simply be not a very good person". It was freeing. Whatever the injuries or genes are that make up an individual we can all recognize that some have "more to give" than others. It is harder when they are the parent we love, the sister we depend upon, the child we raised. But it is a fact.
And yes, the generations are different. This current generation seemed "Sandwiched" between helping their parents at the same time they are supporting grown children. And I think it is doubtful that the coming up generation will have a whole lot to give their elders. It's a different world. Many of them are still paying off college loans while getting Social Security.
As the old Dylan song posited, The Times They Are A-changin. They always have been. Changing, that is.
I would caution everyone to save for yourself; you will need it. There are more and more senior living, and as this generation moves into needing care I suspect there will be ever more options, both because many jobs will be lower pay jobs in health support and because there will be more and more senior living villages and such because of the need. A guess for our dystopian world. Or, there will be more fires like those eating up my own area, and more pandemics to take us out before we become too needy. We will wait and see, shall we?
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disgustedtoo Sep 2020
I'm not buying that it is generational. My mother and her sisters took turns caring for their mother. She was not really ill, no dementia, but needed a place to live, someone to watch over her (minimal), ensure she had good meals, etc. She only made it to maybe upper 70s? I know she was gone before mom & sisters retired, but my generation was mostly grown.

Mom took care of dad while he was still able to get around, but eventually he had to move to a facility. She never asked us to care for him and when much later she developed dementia, she was ADAMANT that she wouldn't move ANYWHERE, but esp not AL. She (dementia) thought she was fine and could manage on her own.

I've already told my kids that if I follow mom down the yellow brick road, find a nice place for me. Visit if you WANT to visit, otherwise, go on with your life. I had mine. Manage things for me, but otherwise, enjoy what you can in your own time!
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Oh dear, I’m so sorry to hear of what you are going through, and about your second cancer diagnosis. Now is the time to look after yourself and to put your own needs first. You will see from the many chats, posts and threads on this site that you are not alone in terms of your experiences with your mother. There are many of us with narcissistic parents who are living with the fall out of this in our lives. It sounds like your mother is safe and cared for in her ASL, so please take a step back right now and focus on dealing with your chemo, resting and making yourself the priority. I’m sensing you have a lot of anger towards your mum, perhaps because she is not able to be supportive to you and with your health issues. Writing from experience of my own anger towards my mother and her narcissism, I can tell you it’s a waste of energy getting resentful and wishing they were different. They will never change, so instead focus that energy positively, on yourself, as you get through the coming months. Also from my own experience I can say that it’s entirely possible that your mother may start to “act up “ and attention seek once you are getting more attention than her. You must ignore this if this happens, and focus on your own needs. You deserve some kindness and care right now. Wishing you all the very best with your chemo, and remember that there are many people on this forum who will be here to support you, if you need us.
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disgustedtoo Sep 2020
"Writing from experience of my own anger towards my mother and her narcissism, I can tell you it’s a waste of energy getting resentful and wishing they were different. They will never change, so instead focus that energy positively, on yourself, as you get through the coming months."

This is key! In my case, it was anger towards my brothers, who did so little to help out, before, during and since the move to MC. I did have to come to the realization that anger and resentment were NOT going to change them, AND had a negative impact on me, so I had to learn to let it go. Before getting to that point, I did start one email for each, and over time would put it away (draft folder) and then edit/add to it, until finally it was enough. I could say what I wanted in it and get it out. I never sent them, as it wouldn't change anything for the better, but would more likely make things worse, so there the drafts sit!

I mostly severed ties with OB (over 2 years, no contact), but due to mom's recent stroke, I sent info/msg so he would be informed. Took 15 hours to get back "Thanks for update". That was it. The other was needed to take her to Mac Deg appts as she wouldn't stand/walk alone, and I can't support her weight. Given her age, dementia and now stroke, I canceled future treatments, so basically once we finish up everything, I'm done with him too!

You can pick your seat, you can pick your nose, but you CAN'T pick your family!
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YES.   It takes 3 kids (but mostly me) to care for my mom.   I have one DC, my siblings have none and my former inlaws have only my DC also.  So one kid for a lot of adults.

I read about final exit and will stock pile pills.  I cannot count on DD to pull the plug
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I'm so sorry you are having so many difficulties. I'm sure your resentment is largely due to your mother's personality and how she has treated you.

As for being a "burden" to your children, were they not a burden to you when you devoted so much of yourself to them when they were babies and all through their childhood years? This is what families do - they care for one another. Nobody has to put up with abuse, but we are obligated, I believe, to make sure our parents are not left to die in poverty. Beyond that, it depends on the situation. It seems your mother is just fine financially.

Nobody has to listen to somebody else whine and complain all the time. If she calls, tell her you are too busy or too tired to talk. She can only make you miserable if you let her.

If I were you, I would have as little contact with mom as possible. You don't need that aggravation with all the other problems you have. Laura Schlessinger has some excellent books on how to deal with what she calls toxic relatives.

Hope things get better for you and that the cancer treatment is successful. I will pray for your healing and relief from the stress.
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Tothill Sep 2020
OkieGranny,

I wonder about this sentence "...but we are obligated, I believe, to make sure our parents are not left to die in poverty." Some of our parents have made such a mess of their personal finances through greed, mismanagement, hoarding etc. They would become a financial vampire on their children if they could.

I don't think you were referring to parents like this in your post, but for me reading that I am somehow obligated to provide financial support for someone who was never there to support me, who actively defamed my character and has neglected a trust to the tune of a few hundred thousand dollars in back taxes, maintenance and neglect, is a trigger and causes an tearful reaction.
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